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Hosts Stacey Harris and John Sumser discuss important word and topics in recruiting and HR technology. Listen live every Thursday or catch up on full escapades with transcriptions here.

HR Tech Weekly Episode: 249 Breath Date: January 18, 2020

This Week

Oracle Hires Amazon Web Assistance Exec As New CMO, Cornerstone Acquires Clustree, PageUp Launches Recruitment Marketing Software, Phenom People heightens $30 M for AI Recruitment Platform, and Modern Health elevates $31 M to Accelerate Reach of Mental Health Benefits.

Oracle Hires Amazon Web Assistance Exec As New CMO Link >> Cornerstone Acquires Clustree Link >> PageUp Launches Recruitment Marketing Software Link >> Phenom People elevates $30 M for AI Recruitment Platform Link >> Modern Health grows $31 M to Accelerate Reach of Mental Health Benefits Link >> Topics: Amazon, Oracle, Cornerstone, Clustree, Skills Analysis, Datasets, Competencies, PhenomPeople, AI, CES, Delta Paralell Reality, Employee Experience, Modern Health, and Liability.

Other News this Week

WorkBoard triples again in 2019, heightens $30 M from a16z to celebrate Link >>

About HR Tech Weekly

Hosts Stacey Harris and John Sumser discuss important news and topics in recruiting and HR technology. Listen live every Thursday at 7AM Pacific- 10 AM Eastern, or catch up on full episodes with transcriptions here.

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Important: Our records at HRExaminer are AI-powered( and somewhat accurate) but there are still instances where the robots get baffled( or terribly flustered) and stimulate wrongdoings. Please expect some inaccuracies as you read through the text of this conversation and let us know if you find something wrong and we’ll get it fastened right away. Thank you for your understanding.

SPEAKERS John Sumser Stacey Harris


John Sumser 0:14 Good morning and welcome to HR Tech Weekly One Step Closer with Stacey Harris and John Sumser. Hi, Stacey. How are you?

Stacey Harris 0:21 Hi, John. I’m doing well. How “are you doin “?

John Sumser 0:25 All right, how’s the sound?

Stacey Harris 0:27 Sounds like you’re in a little of an open chamber, but I’m assuming you’re not right at home today. So are you traveling?

John Sumser 0:34 Actually, I am in the middle of making a big dinner tonight. So for dinner, we’re having Sun shokan leak, Sue, and Papaya.

Stacey Harris 0:45 Very neat. You’re gonna build the listeners hungry today. Now we’re gonna have some lunch for everybody.

John Sumser 0:51 Well, we should go back to claiming that this is early in the morning. Yeah. So what’s up with us a little Well,

Stacey Harris 1:00 It is been a little while I’ve been busy the coming week. I’ve been on the road doing some work in my home office in Atlanta working on some designings for our database strategy that we’ve been working on for the past year and I’m holding up filings. Is that why I’m schedules a little bit off track this week?

John Sumser 1:15 No, I was in Chicago. I just got out of Chicago before the storm reached. And then I flew from Chicago to Minneapolis. And it was snowing so hard that they had a de ICER truck next to the plane the part day. We were on the runway.

Stacey Harris 1:31 Wow.

Unknown Speaker 1:32 Yeah. I have never been more delighted to live in California.

Stacey Harris 1:38 Scary terms I had a few people who were at that satisfy who were heading mentioned. I believe they saw it back in time. But yeah, I remember those daytimes is looking forward to the tarmac in Cleveland with the blizzard and the DI there’s and I have to admit I don’t miss stop right now. I possible I try and say all phenomena that are south of the Mason Dixon line. Right, sir,

John Sumser 1:57 show what’s in the mailbag this week. We’re going to talk about,

Stacey Harris 2:01 Yeah, it’s been somewhat hectic week although we’ve been trip and running around the country. Other things are going on. Oracle made some interesting story the coming week, they hire the brand-new cmo leader market officers from AWS. That’s where it’s probably having some discussion about because I think it harkens back to where Larry beat his big competitor and their focus and cloud versus individual functionality. Cornerstone did a big acquisition and retention and buy in a while they did a quite major acquisition. for them. They acquired a company called team tree to build the leading AI powered sororities platform for beings occurrence compensating about $18.5 million for what is essentially a fraternity database and thinking you’re going to upset me this one because it basically says it’s a environment database that was created with algorithms with or they call it bias free algorithm. Sean, so I’m interested in your thoughts on that one. But that’s going to be an interesting discussion. We likewise discovered from female parties do another round of funding raising so if fairly beings foster $30 million for their AI platform used by multiple societies. And then we too attended that modern state which is another HR technology, but more in the healthcare infinite parent 31 million to accelerate the reach of mental health benefits. That’s something that hears much about something that is still a benefit and surprising autobiography somewhat separated in many cases drive council also raise another $30 million worth for business fast startup that supports destination determining and handling application. So accomplishment administration, I’ve seen them slightly in the market, it’d be worth talking about why we’re envision so much investment in some of these technologies that are considered still niche actors in the market today. And then if we’ve got a little bit of time today Hey Jeff propelled a new recruitment marketing software so page if we haven’t heard a great deal about patently they’re in Australia with all the stuff going on in Australia, America right now I’m sure it is been a bit for them to get their their new makes, but they were able to last week launch their brand-new recruitment market kresser which was Cousin Trinity recruiting application. So it’s been a busy week was busy. We’ve been everybody else has been busy and well done.

John Sumser 4:05 What have you got to start the year at some point in time it was us Lonestar.

Stacey Harris 4:10 It was yes, I would have to say. All of us were coming back last week to all of our upcoming webinars and upcoming incidents or all feeling like we’re just a pair weeks behind where we should be at I think you were hit it honcho on our last all that everybody had taking this a little bit longer anniversary this year. So

John Sumser 4:27 cool. So let’s talk about Oracle. Oracle stole a CMO from Amazon Web Services.

Stacey Harris 4:35 Yeah, I’m getting ready to to realize some plans for the travel to the Oracle modern business event that they have each year we do try and capture as much information as possible about what they’re doing with their customers and Oracle HCM Cloud. But when you go to many of their affairs, the big conversation ends up being about the mas solution that they’re creating the the idea of having a world model that is available but still has the tube People can use a mixture of sort of private and public. And if you kind of played a booze recreation with the amount of hours that Larry mentioned Amazon, you’d be quite drunkard at the end of most of those events. So yeah, so this is definitely another fire and then directions saying that we want to be a major competitor with Amazon more than some of the other organizations that we talked about on a regular basis, I think.

John Sumser 5:19 Yeah, this has been a an ambitious and unrealized goal of Oracle’s for some time, but they like to say they’re one of the top mas providers, but they’re the only ones who ever say that. So maybe the secret exploits marketing and having a new Chief Marketing Officer for Oracle his from Amazon, Who ought to have been guessed 20 years ago that being the bos sell policeman, though this guy was the vice president of marketing, he was the vice president underlied at Amazon, merely that that was a step to beat reading marketing at something like Oracle. Nobody. Really improve even though they feel very much the same.

Stacey Harris 6:01 They certainly have your age. When I went back and did the effort we did that first year, we started looking back. It’s amazing to really think that when we first started talking about Amazon, and “its just” not even relatively 20 year ago, right? They were bookstore, right? That was a no one would have suspected that they would have ended up where they were at. Right. So, um, I guess that that that’s just a cautionary tale for everyone never never weigh anyone out as far as what their potentials and future is likely to be, especially in this day and age.

John Sumser 6:33 Yeah, it’s an amazing tale. So now, trend I’m biased cluttery to have an AI powered skills stage, how many AI powered skills scaffold Do you think there are?

Stacey Harris 6:49 No, I, this was I make, my impression on this is this is a direct response to what’s going on over at work day on Sunday. I make workday created their skills framework. They’ve invested heavily in that. I know that cornerstone was trying to leverage all of their background and ordeal and implements to pull together the ontology from their learning processes. Right. But I fantasize probably what must have happened is that they came up short, and realise they needed to buy that data set. What I located was sort of interesting was that, you know, these people are, you are well aware, the language they’re using now have a, a bias free assortment algorithm that was used to develop this feels bad. But that’s pretty fearles to say something is completely by a free claim at this point.

John Sumser 7:46 It’s silly to say it’s not, it’s not just odd, but it’s silly. There were a very few people left. Make Any such allegations about artificial intelligence that that they’re the data set or the output is bias free. Because data without context is meaningless. And context is bias. So, you know, it’s it’s actually not very hard but, but there are a lot of people who’ve sold a lot of investors out of the idea that they can make money by being bias free. And so it’s a hard thing to step back from class

Stacey Harris 8: 32 ontology based on the consolidation of over 1 billion occupations sorority across several conversations, which is an interesting one, because we don’t do a great deal about expressions and differentiations, and that into a library of 53, 000 authenticated abilities that accurately describe an employee profile from any industry. Now, you’ve also been following what Google’s doing in this space is 53,000. A big-hearted count here.

John Sumser 8: 56 I think it’s kind of a standard number. I assured one this morning. from a company called my cleverness pacify and God knows where they’re from, but my abilities, mollify promises, 50,000 skills and they predicted 50,000 skills organized around the idea of the relative physical activity be necessary to those talents. But, so Okay, and then IBM, this is the heart of the IBM initiative. And Sally calm has a big arrangement of this kind of thing and is often the source of taxonomies for people who are trying to run sizable organization organisations that don’t have controlling taxonomies currently, and so I count Oh, geez. And igniting class has earned. This is like this is like the area age athletic for people who want to re envision a tar is to build a talents matrix. But one of the things that’s really interesting is you can start you could I presume, Define all of the skills associated with the job, although I’m not sure that that’s a really useful room to do. It’s really, genuinely challenging to get that data in a in an extraordinary form out of a resume database. And so, so the only reason nobody’s going to look through a library of 53, 000 substantiated talents , nobody’s going to review each and every one of them. And so the issues is, How deep is the skill information? And how do you how do you liken it to what somebody’s resume says?

Stacey Harris 10:33 These are the surely the different focus here in the building is building inventory. That’s precise rise, growth and informed banking decisions.

John Sumser 10:43 Right? Yeah, it’s so challenging because I was listening to somebody talking the other day who was out over out over her skis, I guess, is what I’d say. And she said something like the course you take bias out of a resume analysis is you don’t look what you don’t look at extracurricular tasks. But if you do look at extracurricular acts, you can see things like I ranged the student authority at the University of Michigan for two years. And while that’s an extracurricular skill, if the number of jobs asks leadership of vast groups of people who don’t have any reason to follow you, and that’s, that’s an important ability, you got to be able to pick that up, oh, the resume, but the operating theory and some of these situates, so you can look at data like that. And so, so I don’t know, I think there’s a lot of inhale and not a great deal of burn in this abilities, wizard stuff.

Stacey Harris 11:40 well as other things that I think that everybody genuinely would do talking about is the maintenance of the databases. Now, perhaps you can give me some insight on those if they’re building them with an ontology and algorithms does that mean they should be self continuing feeding themselves in some way? Or is you know because what I find is that most From the organizations who are talking about this knowledge control forget to talk about how it gets maintained on a regular basis with input from the end users endlessly reassessing it as one of the things I thought that workday hadn’t taken some time to address when they were talking about their tools, is that a concern that should be brought up here?

John Sumser 12:16 Of route, that’s a really great degree. There are some targets with automated maintenance, and actually deep datasets underneath each individual skill. So when you say there’s a library of 53, 000 sciences, you could mean a listing of 53, 000 knowledge, you know, so it’s so it’s, you know, 50 per page, so it’s 1000 or 1500 sheet paper with a index of sciences. Or you could mean a extensive analysis that shows what training you need to do to achieve the skill, how you link mastery of the skill and the evolution of that knowledge as it travels over age and technological sciences conversions around it and Nobody ever was talking about that very clearly because it can be exhausting in its depth. And as you rightly point out maintenance is a real trick when you’ve got this much data, and the only way that you can validate or validate it is with automated similarity against the flow of jobs that are going into the market, right. So all of this substance will be a reduction of the data that’s in enterprise ads affixed over the last x years. That’s how you get to 50,000 checked sales.

Stacey Harris 13:37 I accurately and another having a hard time and maybe it’s the old-fashioned competency director inside of me not feeling fantastic, generate a brand-new format or the ring-binders that used to sit on my shelf of competencies, right. So maybe I’m a bit jaded on this round because of that because I wasted times constructing binders that were outdated before they were get reproduced as well. It’s definitely you said this is a face is going to get really mobbed and there’s gonna be a lot of publicity. And I reckon the the end game will be can you keep it informed? Can you make sure that it actually achieved some outcome? Can you sort of understand your biases and construct to those biases and feelings then right realise sure that they are acknowledged and think through and what they cause? And those are some of the things I foresee a lot of these organizations have to maybe take a step back from?

John Sumser 14:23 Well, there’s another question to which is there’s no agreement anywhere on whose ontology is right or close to right or what they have in common. So it’s pretty easy to imagine working for a company that uses the workday ontology and then going to work for a company that uses the cornerstone ontology and going to work for a company that uses the IBM on top. That’s it, let’s say, let’s say you took those three jobs in a row and detecting when you is an indication that what you thought were knowledge are less abilities, because there’s no translation or standardization or Cross the datasets.

Stacey Harris 15:01 Yeah, and I can recollect those discourses when we were talking about competencies within industries, right, Colin groups of industry, beings try to get together to create the competency representation, at least for especially those that are verified manufactures. And these principles then goes broader and more nuanced, I guess, when you start adding technology and immediate decisions made off of that, right.

John Sumser 15:21 Exactly.

Stacey Harris 15:23 So what about my best friend been participating in parties, john, I imply, another $30 million for their AI recruitment platform. Now, they mentioned in the commentary, we’re gonna we’re a Microsoft, Microsoft’s, a client of ours, but they’re still around only 300 fellowships leveraging their top 300 very great companionships, I’m assuming based on the numbers and things that the government has posted, but what’s this round of 30 million for this point? I necessitate, we’ve been on beings been in the market for a while now. Is there a point at which you are able to expect some of that material to be able to sort of stand on that one? Or is this just because of where this market is that it only involves so much technology and you are well aware, higher gamble? That’s on the outside is that we just have to keep restate it was funding

John Sumser 16:04 well for our beings has become a pretty interesting, big administration, right 500 beings in the company means that you might expect it to have $ 50 million in revenue. And so one of the things that happens in the early days of SAS is you get credit for sales, but you can’t devote the money. Right, the bookkeeping for SAS chronicles is, is crazy. And so it takes a while to catch the bookkeeping up. And a good deal of hours this kind of distributes allow you to continue to grow by impeding the bookkeeping legit. And it really is just another tank of gas on a long drive. And so so I expect the vibe of all the recruiting fellowships who “ve been coming” in the AI era to non parties is by far the most interesting and the most powerful song so I expect this is another step in the right direction.

Stacey Harris 17:03 And so, I want, you’ve seen a good deal of what they’re doing on the AI front. And it sounds like that’s where they plan to continue to offset more investments will their will where their tool be something that’s going to wireless and then next year, so based off of what you’ve

John Sumser 17:16 seen, what they’re starting to have a fairly extensive event for hire. So it starts with the employment website, knows who you are and gives you things that related to you content and profession possibilities and stuff like that. You go through the hiring process in the AI is implemented across the hiring process, you get inside and internal mobility is operated the same way. And so and I guess I’d have to look but I believe they have a candidate communication system very, so you can keep the employment grapevines descend and it’s starting to look like a exhaustive recruiting answer. With the various kinds of legs into the organization with onboarding and internal mobility that are what ability administration should look like,

Stacey Harris 18:10 you know, it’s interesting this concept about personalization before I was plucked from a great deal of exchanges that are happening in the HR space. This week, I extended and took a quick look to see whether enhance the keynote, the show that comes out every year, engineering around this time of year that would pique an interest or sure fell into our locality and not a lot Most of it was what we would consider interesting is, you are well aware, soaping machines are connected to you and toothbrushes and say to you how you know how hard it is to you know, brush your teeth and more watches and those type of things. But the only thing that I think sort of smacks them along the same routes is there was a tool that was sort of not propelled there. It’s actually it’s open out in the market, but was talking about at the event announced deltas latitude world. And basically what Delta has developed in the airline in conjunction with misapplied Sciences is a new technology that enables one airfield screen to display peculiar Slides travel information, Pacific boarding gates retirement retarded sky books to 100 different beings simultaneously at the same time, based on their span, you know what language they want to see what’s distinct to them, which means that screen is automatically seeing them coming, updating, and they’re learn what’s unique to them. And other beings aren’t sure how these new technologies makes. But they’re saying it’s pretty amazing to see, you are well aware, is this the world we’re heading into where everybody has their own personalized know with everything?

John Sumser 19:29 Well, so I was listening to Pandora last night on the ride somewhere, and Pandora deterred punching the mark with music that I wanted to listen to. And a great deal of it was music I’d never heard before. So I supposed, Oh, yeah, with music, you want to reach an audience of one. And so all of the artificial intelligence stuff is great if you’re trying to reach an audience of one with a specific agenda inside of a finite universe. And my guess is we’ll verify more and more and more So one various kinds of experiences, that’s really where they’re headed with the employee suffer idea.

Stacey Harris 20:06 And that’s, that was one thing, I think so I’m a crossfitter. I would agree, you know, we’re find more of this. And the issues becomes, how does that fit with industry specific needs or with the idea that you always have to improve a piece of technology to create best practices? Don’t the idea best rehearsals inside of technology actually work with an public of one concept? Right, I think that’s going to be the other conversation, we’re going to start having this year a lot more because best practices usurp there’s an average for everyone, right?

John Sumser 20:33 Or when you do that, you can collect enough information so that you know and there are clues out there you know, the the airline certainly has already been of my traveling autobiography. And so it’s pretty easy to prophesy where I might want to purchase a ticket or where I might want to go or what kind of hotel I might want to stay in and I listened to a lot of music so so as Pandora starts to notice what I listened to it gets this interesting idea of me and I suspect the will be for the other kinds of personalization is how do you rally the data what draws gumption to me.

Stacey Harris 21:07 And that really maybe heads into the last topic we might want to cover this week, which is modern health. Modern health elevated 31 million in the succession B funding. And they’re an organization that focuses on mental health benefits that providing the tools that would support that it is they say that mostly generates a better offering beyond what is offered by major medical health plans or legacy EAP. It’s a modern health surrounding with different approaches for what parties should be taking for their mental health care. This is an area where again , now we’re crossover that wire do I demand my companionship know that much about me, right? And yet, we’re spending an enormous amount of money investing I’ve seen multiple This is not the only one we’ve talked about in the last six months have something to do with mental health where there’s been going some big financings this year, is this another area where you’re hearing that also and what happens? If you’ve got the data inside a company, you’re recruiting to another fellowship, and where does that knowledge become? Right?

John Sumser 22:06 I think you’d be nuts to utilize a structure like this. Right? The basic thing that they talk about is mental health has a stigma associated with it. And I don’t know, I don’t know a lot of companies that have earned their employees trust to the point that employees shouldn’t feel pleasant permit the company know about their mental health issues. And even more interesting is the question of the recommendations that the company makes about mental health. Right? Is it? Do I truly require my corporation to say to me how to solve my dimple? I don’t know. And do I actually miss the company to have in their records that I’m depressed rarely have that I struggle with depression because feeling has these two sides. The highest performers almost always struggle with depression. And that’s the face of depression that’s high performance, and then some people are debilitated by it. Some beings alter between those things that are super beneficial. But if you have that data in the entrusts of an dumb, and they think that depression is only one thing, and they’ve got a stereotypical judgment of dip, all sorts of weird stuff can happen, right? That’s that’s the problem with a data motor world is the people who consume the data may not be qualified to consume the data. And so this doesn’t talk about how you qualify beings to spend the data.

Stacey Harris 23:29 And that’s the thing. I think that’s across the board with all of the recommendations that are being put out in the market, right? What do you do if you find that 20 minutes we don’t go down to the individual level, right? If you really find out that 20% of your workforce is prone to depression, what’s your step with that freedom at a team or enterprise level? Right?

John Sumser 23:49 Well, so “what youre” percent of your workforce has that question. And most of them work in a single fraction under a single group of heads. And so what you’ve got done is create evidence of liability for harm, right? While I understand how interesting it is to know about that, and then it’d be great for solving problems. I think the lawyers are liable to go, are you kidding me? You know, and so there’s this difference between what’s possible and what’s likely to happen that you have to figure out on this particular one.

Stacey Harris 24:28 And I think that goes back to you are well aware, some of the stuff that we’ve been talking about the last couple of months Dahlia the same thing, you know, the the hirevue lawsuit, all of this is going to get ahead of the laws and the ethics and the regulation. It’s a matter of who’s going to who’s going to get you know, trimmed first it might be a poor way of saying it but but who’s going to be the first firm to feel the brunt of somebody saying, hey, this was done incorrectly or it was used against me, right? No Time will tell. It’s not to say that I don’t agree. And I do want to say that I Do actually think we need to fix how we address mental health inside of our companies. And so I don’t I do think we should probably be careful about being too much of a naysayer, it is crucial to make this an easier situation. I entail, I know I can recollect when I is passing through challenges after my husband delivered, trying to access any type of support through a traditional EAP environment was the most agonizing and to be honest, nonsensical process I’ve ever went through. So I don’t disagree that it needs to be improved, but I do think we need to monitor it closely. Right.

John Sumser 25:31 You know what, I couldn’t is in agreement with you more. I’m not really a naysayer here here i am beings waste the vast majority of their time working for their companies. And there’s every reason to think that a company is positioned well to help with mental health publications recognized. That kind of data is precious and involves a grade of trust that doesn’t necessarily exist between employees of their companies and my appreciations. You have to work on the trust segment first.

Stacey Harris 26:01 Well, I think that’s a great place for us to sort of wrap up the conversation this week. I think that maybe in the next got a couple of discourses we can investigate are the companies actually, you know, gaining more cartel. There’s been some some investigate on that very. So maybe that’s worth looking at as well. So

John Sumser 26:17 That’d be great. Love to see it. So, thanks for doing this again. Another immense exchange. And thanks, everybody for tuning in. We were at an touchy term this week, but we’ll be back to regular next. See you around next week. You’ve been listening to HR Tech Weekly One Step Closer with Stacey Harris and John Sumser. Bye Bye now.

Stacey Harris 26:36 Bye everyone.

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